Talk:Carnivora

Grrrr!

At the risk of sounding like a humourless git, am I the only person here who thinks the lion picture on this page is excessively silly? Just wondering. The Singing Badger 20:32, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It was changed recently. In my opinion the "grrrrrr!" balloon is a bit out of style on a scientific page. Seems like someone's joke in a wrong place. Paul Pogonyshev 23:30, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The lion pic was vandalised by some joker. I have now put a completely different photo there. — Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 23:11, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Weights of Mammals on Wikipedia (Carnivora)

Here's the table I made February 5 2023 for Carnivora species listed in Wikipedia (when searching from List of mammal genera, the linked genus pages from this page and the species page listed in the genus page).

Information on adult weight is not given in 63 species, two of these 63 have weights of newborns. Remark that Dog do not have any data on weight in the main page.

Carnivora (61 missing, 2 with newbown weights only)

Genus	Scientific Name	Common Name	Information on Weight (yes/no)
Atelocynus	microtis	Short-eared dog	No
Canis	aureus	Golden jackal	Yes
	dingo / c. familiaris dingo / c. lupus dingo / etc	Dingo	Yes
	familiaris	Domestic dog	Not in main page
	latrans	Coyote	Yes
	lupaster	African golden wolf	Yes
	lupus	Grey / Gray wolf	Yes
	lycaon	Eastern wolf	Yes
	rufus	Red wolf	Yes
	simensis	Ethiopian wolf	Yes
Chrysocyon	brachyurus	Maned wolf	Yes
Cuon	alpinus	Dhole	Yes
Lupulella	adusta	Side-striped jackal	Yes
	mesomelas	Black-backed jackal	Yes
Lycaon	pictus	African wild dog	Yes
Nyctereutes	procyonoides	Common raccoon dog	Yes
	viverrinus	Japanese raccoon dog	No
Otocyon	megalotis	Bat-eared fox	Yes
Speothos	venaticus	Bush dog	Yes
Urocyon	cinereoargenteus	Gray fox	Yes
	littoralis	Island fox	Yes
Vulpes	bengalensis	Bengal fox	Yes
	cana	Blanford's fox	Yes
	chama	Cape fox	Yes
	corsac	Corsac fox	Yes
	ferrilata	Tibetan sand fox	Yes
	lagopus	Arctic fox	Yes
	macrotis	Kit fox	Yes
	pallida	Pale fox	Yes
	rueppellii	Rüppell's fox	Yes
	velox	Swift fox	Yes
	vulpes	Red fox	Yes
	zerda	Fennec fox	Yes
Ailuropoda	melanoleuca	Giant panda	Yes
Tremarctos	ornatus	Spectacled bear	Yes
Helarctos	malayanus	Sun bear	Yes
Melursus	ursinus	Sloth bear	Yes
Ursus	americanus	American black bear	Yes
	arctos	Brown bear	Yes
	maritimus	Polar bear	Yes
	thibetanus	Asian black bear	Yes
Ailurus	fulgens	Red panda	Yes
Conepatus	chinga	Molina's hog-nosed skunk	No
	humboldtii	Humboldt's hog-nosed skunk	Yes
	leuconotus	American hog-nosed skunk	Yes
	semistriatus	Striped hog-nosed skunk	No
Mephitis	mephitis	Striped skunk	Yes
	macroura	Hooded skunk	No (but see talk)
Mydaus	marchei	Palawan stink badger	Yes
	javanensis	Sunda stink badger	Yes
Spilogale	gracilis	Western spotted skunk	Yes
	putorius	Eastern spotted skunk	Yes
	pygmaea	Pygmy spotted skunk	No
	angustifrons	Southern spotted skunk	Yes
Eira	barbara	Tayra	Yes
Gulo	gulo	Wolverine	Yes
Martes	americana	American marten	Yes
	caurina	Pacific marten	No
	martes	European pine marten	Yes
	foina	Beech marten	Yes
	flavigula	Yellow-throated marten	Yes
	gwatkinsii	Nilgiri marten	Yes
	zibellina	Sable	Yes
	melampus	Japanese marten	Yes
Pekania	pennanti	Fisher	Yes
Melogale	everetti	Bornean ferret-badger	Yes
	moschata	Chinese ferret-badger	No
	subaurantiaca	Formosan ferret-badger	No
	orientalis	Javan ferret-badger	Yes
	personata	Burmese ferret-badger	Yes
	cucphuongensis	Vietnam ferret-badger	No
Galictis	cuja	Lesser grison	Yes
	vittata	Greater grison	Yes
Ictonyx	libycus	Saharan striped polecat	Yes
	striatus	Striped polecat	Yes
Lyncodon	patagonicus	Patagonian weasel	No
Poecilogale	albinucha	African striped weasel	Yes
Vormela	peregusna	Marbled polecat	Yes
Aonyx	capensis	African clawless otter	Yes
	congicus	Congo clawless otter	Yes
	cinereus	Asian small-clawed otter	Yes
Enhydra	lutris	Sea otter	Yes
Hydrictis	maculicollis	Spotted-necked otter	Yes
Lontra	canadensis	North American river otter	Yes
	provocax	Southern river otter	Yes
	longicaudis	Neotropical otter	Yes
	felina	Marine otter	Yes
Lutra	lutra	Eurasian otter	Yes
	sumatrana	Hairy-nosed otter	Yes
	nippon	Japanese otter	No
Lutrogale	perspicillata	Smooth-coated otter	Yes
Pteronura	brasiliensis	Giant otter	Yes
Arctonyx	albogularis	Northern hog badger	No
	collaris	Greater hog badger	Yes
	hoevenii	Sumatran hog badger	No
Meles	meles	Eurasian badger	Yes
	canescens	Caucasian badger	No
	leucurus	Asian badger	Yes
	anakuma	Japanese badger	Yes
Mellivora	capensis	Honey badger	Yes
Mustela	altaica	Mountain weasel	Yes
	lutreolina	Indonesian mountain weasel	No
	erminea	Stoat / Beringian ermine	Yes
	nivalis	Least weasel	Yes
	aistoodonnivalis	Missing-toothed pygmy weasel	No
	richardsonii	American ermine	No
	haidarum	Haida ermine	No
	eversmanii	Steppe polecat	Yes
	furo	Domestic ferret	Yes
	putorius	European polecat	Yes
	itatsi	Japanese weasel	No
	sibirica	Siberian weasel	Yes
	kathiah	Yellow-bellied weasel	Yes
	lutreola	European mink	Yes
	nigripes	Black-footed ferret	Yes
	nudipes	Malayan weasel	No
	strigidorsa	Back-striped weasel	Yes
Neogale	africana	Amazon weasel	No
	felipei	Colombian weasel	Yes
	frenata	Long-tailed weasel	Yes
	vison	American mink	Yes
Taxidea	taxus	American badger	Yes
Procyon	lotor	Raccoon / Common raccoon	Yes
	cancrivorus	Crab-eating raccoon	Yes
	pygmaeus	Cozumel raccoon	Yes
Nasua	narica	White-nosed coati	Yes
	nasua	South American coati	Yes
Nasuella	olivacea	Western mountain coati	No
Bassaricyon	alleni	Eastern lowland olingo	Yes
	gabbii	Northern olingo	Yes
	medius	Western lowland olingo	Yes
	neblina	Olinguito	Yes
Potos	flavus	Kinkajou	Yes
Bassariscus	astutus	Ringtail	Yes
	sumichrasti	Cacomistle	Yes
Odebenus	rosmarus	Walrus	Yes
Arctocephalus	gazella	Antarctic fur seal	Yes
	townsendi	Guadalupe fur seal	Yes
	philippii	Juan Fernández fur seal	Yes
	galapagoensis	Galápagos fur seal	Yes
	pusillus	Brown fur seal	Yes
	forsteri	New Zealand fur seal	Yes
	tropicalis	Subantarctic fur seal	Yes
	australis	South American fur seal	Yes
Callorhinus	ursinus	Northern fur seal	Yes
Eumetopias	jubatus	Steller sea lion	Yes
Neophoca	cinerea	Australian sea lion	No
Phocarctos	hookeri	New Zealand sea lion	Yes
Zalophus	californianus	California sea lion	Yes
	wollebaeki	Galápagos sea lion	Yes
	japonicus	Japanese sea lion	Yes
Otaria	flavescens	South American sea lion	Yes
Hydrurga	leptonyx	Leopard seal	Yes
Leptonychotes	weddellii	Weddell's sea	Yes
Lobodon	carcinophaga	Crabeater seal	Yes
Ommatophoca	rossii	Ross's seal	Yes
Mirounga	angustirostris	Northern elephant seal	Yes
	leonina	Southern elephant seal	Yes
Monachus	monachus	Mediterranean monk seal	Yes
Neomonachus	schauinslandi	Hawaiian monk seal	Yes
	tropicalis	Caribbean monk seal	Yes
Cystophora	cristata	Hooded seal	Yes
Erignathus	barbatus	Bearded seal	Yes
Halichoerus	grypus	Grey seal	Yes
Histriophoca	fasciata	Ribbon seal	Yes
Pagophilus	groenlandicus	Harp seal	Yes
Phoca	largha	Spotted seal	Yes
	vitulina	Common seal	Yes
Pusa	caspica	Caspian seal	Yes
	hispida	Ringed seal	Yes
	sibirica	Baikal seal	Yes
Nandinia	binotata	African palm civet	Yes
Neofelis	diardi	Sunda clouded leopard	Yes
	nebulosa	Clouded leopard	Yes
Panthera	leo	Lion	Yes
	tigris	Tiger	Yes
	pardus	Leopard	Yes
	uncia	Snow leopard	Yes
	onca	Jaguar	Yes
Catopuma	temminckii	Asian golden cat	Yes
	badia	Bay cat	Yes
Pardofelis	marmorata	Marbled cat	Yes
Caracal	aurata	African golden cat	Yes
	caracal	Caracal	Yes
Leptailurus	serval	Serval	Yes
Leopardus	pardalis	Ocelot	Yes
	tigrinus	Oncilla	Yes
	colocola	Pampas cat	Yes (newborns)
	guigna	Kodkod	Yes
	wiedii	Margay	Yes
	geoffroyi	Geoffroy's cat	Yes
	jacobita	Andean mountain cat	Yes
	guttulus	Southern tigrina	Yes
Lynx	canadensis	Canadian lynx	Yes
	lynx	Eurasian lynx	Yes
	pardinus	Iberian lynx	Yes
	rufus	Bobcat	Yes
Puma	concolor	Cougar / Mountain lion / Puma	Yes
Herpailurus	yagouaroundi	Jaguarundi	Yes
Acinonyx	jubatus	Cheetah	Yes
Prionailurus	bengalensis	(Mainland) leopard cat	Yes
	javanensis	Sunda leopard cat	Yes
	planiceps	Flat-headed cat	Yes
	viverrinus	Fishing cat	Yes
	rubiginosus	Rusty-spotted cat	Yes
Otocolobus	manul	Pallas's cat	Yes
Felis	catus	Domestic cat	Yes
	silvestris	European wildcat	Yes
	chaus	Jungle cat	Yes
	lybica	African wildcat	Yes
	nigripes	Black-footed cat	Yes
	margarita	Sand cat	Yes
	bieti	Chinese mountain cat	Yes
Prionodon	linsang	Banded linsang	Yes
	pardicolor	Spotted linsang	Yes
Viverricula	indica	Small Indian civet	Yes (Newborns)
Viverra	zibetha	Large Indian civet	Yes
	tangalunga	Malayan civet	No
	civettina	Malabar large-spotted civet	Yes
	megaspila	Large-spotted civet	Yes
Civettictis	civetta	African civet	Yes
Poiana	leightoni	West African oyan	No
	richardsonii	Central African oyan	No
Genetta	genetta	Common genet	Yes
	tigrina	Cape genet	Yes
	felina	South African small-spotted genet	No (Page inexistant)
	maculata	Rusty-spotted genet	Yes
	pardina	Pardine genet	No
	abyssinica	Abyssinian genet	No
	poensis	King genet	No
	servalina	Servaline genet	No
	angolensis	Angolan genet	No
	victoriae	Giant forest genet	No
	thierryi	Hausa genet	No
	letabae	Letaba genet	No
	johnstoni	Johnston's genet	No
	piscivora	Aquatic genet	Yes
	cristata	Crested servaline genet	No
	schoutedeni	Schouteden's genet	No (Page inexistant)
	bourloni	Bourlon's genet	No
Cynogale	bennettii	Otter civet	No
Chrotogale	owstoni	Owston's palm civet	No
Hemigalus	derbyanus	Banded palm civet	Yes
Diplogale	hosei	Hose's palm civet	Yes
Macrogalidia	musschenbroekii	Sulawesi palm civet	No
Paradoxurus	hermaphroditus	Asian palm civet	Yes
	zeylonensis	Golden palm civet	No
	jerdoni	Brown palm civet	Yes
Paguma	larvata	Masked palm civet	Yes
Arctogalidia	trivirgata	Small-toothed palm civet	Yes
Arctictis	binturong	Binturong	Yes
Proteles	cristata	Aardwolf	Yes
Crocuta	crocuta	Spotted hyena	Yes
Hyaena	hyaena	Striped hyena	Yes
Parahyaena	brunnea	Brown hyena	Yes
Crossarchus	alexandri	Alexander's kusimanse	Yes
	ansorgei	Angolan kusimanse	Yes
	obscurus	Common kusimanse	Yes
	platycephalus	Flat-headed kusimanse	Yes
Liberiictis	kuhni	Liberian mongoose	No
Suricata	suricatta	Meerkat	Yes
Dologale	dybowskii	Pousargue's mongoose	No
Helogale	hirtula	Ethiopian dwarf mongoose	No
	parvula	Common dwarf mongoose	Yes
Mungos	mungo	Banded mongoose	Yes
	gambianus	Gambian mongoose	No
Atilax	paludinosus	Marsh mongoose	Yes
Xenogale	naso	Long-nosed mongoose	No
Herpestes	ichneumon	Egyptian mongoose	Yes
	sanguineus	Common slender mongoose	Yes
	pulverulentus	Cape gray mongoose	Yes
	ochraceus	Somalian slender mongoose	Yes
	flavescens	Angolan slender mongoose	No
Cynictis	penicillata	Yellow mongoose	Yes
Paracynictis	selousi	Selous's mongoose	Yes
Bdeogale	crassicauda	Bushy-tailed mongoose	Yes
	nigripes	Black-footed mongoose	No
	jacksoni	Jackson's mongoose	Yes
	omnivora	Sokoke dog mongoose	No
Ichneumia	albicauda	White-tailed mongoose	Yes
Rhynchogale	melleri	Meller's mongoose	Yes
Urva	edwardsii	Indian grey mongoose	Yes
	javanica	Javan mongoose	No
	vitticolla	Stripe-necked mongoose	Yes
	auropunctata	Small Indian mongoose	No
	urva	Crab-eating mongoose	Yes
	smithii	Ruddy mongoose	Yes
	brachyura	Short-tailed mongoose	Yes
	fusca	Indian brown mongoose	Yes
	semitorquata	Collared mongoose	No
Cryptoprocta	ferox	Fossa	Yes
Eupleres	goudotii	Eastern falanouc	No
	major	Western falanouc	No
Fossa	fossana	Malagasy civet	Yes
Galidia	elegans	Ring-tailed vontsira	Yes
Galidictis	fasciata	Broad-striped Malagasy mongoose	No
	grandidieri	Grandidier's mongoose	Yes
Mungotictis	decemlineata	Narrow-striped mongoose	No
Salanoia	concolor	Brown-tailed mongoose	No
	durrelli	Durrell's vontsira	Yes

Gimly24 (talk) 12:48, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Two closing curly braces before chapter 'Classification of the extant carnivorans'

I don't see what they are good for. 94.218.76.27 (talk) 13:08, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I've removed them. The curly braces are used for a series of nested {{clade}} templates that are used to create the cladogram. An extra closing double brace was inadvertently left when editing the cladogram. —  Jts1882 | talk  13:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

And, to clarify my own earlier edit, that was because you inadvertently deleted the wrong set of brackets. Obviously an innocent mistake, but it had to be fixed. Anaxial (talk) 13:27, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Duplication in lead section

"The caniforms include the dogs, bears, raccoons, weasels, and seals. Members of this group are found worldwide and with immense diversity in their diet, behavior, and morphology." Is this necessary after it has already been mentioned above in "the Caniformia, containing the true canids (such as wolves and dingos) and many somewhat "dog-like" forms such as sea lions and bears." Many miles to go (talk) 04:00, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Respell

I believe per respell rules that kar-NIV-ər-ə is incorrect. The correct respell should be kar-NIH-vər-ə because the checked I is in an accented, not unaccented, syllable. @Anaxial: do you agree? - UtherSRG (talk) 11:32, 24 August 2024 (UTC)

@UtherSRG: As discussed on your talk page and in English phonology#Phonotactics, linguists usually syllabify a stressed checked vowel and the following consonant together (or regard the latter as ambisyllabic), as checked vowels are never found at the end of a word and theories of syllabification are informed by observations on what is a possible word in the given language. That's why the OED, American Heritage Dictionary, Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, Cambridge English Pronouncing Dictionary, and Longman Pronunciation Dictionary identify the stressed syllable in carnivora or carnivorous to be /nɪv/.

The whole reason the respelling key has ih as an alternative to i, as discussed in the footnotes there, is that sometimes syllabifying it with the following consonant indicates an incorrect pronunciation. Respelling e.g. guitar as ghit-AR falsely implies the /t/ is not aspirated and may be flapped or glottalized, so we respell it as ghih-TAR. This is a compromise—something we do only reluctantly—because, since no English word ends in a stressed /ɪ/, ghih is susceptible to being misinterpreted as /ɡiː/ (and ghi as /ɡaɪ/). But unlike ghit-AR vs ghih-TAR, kar-NIV-ər-ə and kar-NIH-vər-ə imply no difference, so there's no reason to choose the latter which more prone to being misinterpreted as having /iː/. That's why we have hundreds of articles with respellings like HURT-sə-GOV-in-ə, NAV-ə-hoh, LUV-əl, ə-LIV-ee-ay, and LIV-ee, and not HURT-sə-GO-vin-ə, NA-və-hoh, LUH-vəl, ə-LIH-vee-ay, or LIH-vee. If we're going to respell carnivora any differently, you have to give us a reason. (Pinging also Bananah20 who added the respelling.) Nardog (talk) 01:38, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

You know I countered all of your arguments on my talk page, including pointing out how each of the Repell notes doesn't apply as written. For instance, that note 1 only applies to unstressed syllables, and in carnivora the syllable in question is stressed. - UtherSRG (talk) 10:49, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Countered? You're the one who stopped replying to my questions and proceeded to reinstate your preference. Note 1 is carving out an exception for when syllabifying a checked vowel and the following consonant together leads to the wrong pronunciation; the implicit corollary is that of course you're going to syllabify them together when it doesn't. For the nth time, what is the basis for your preferred syllabification, and what makes carnivora different from the hundreds of other words we respell with a checked vowel and the following consonant together? Nardog (talk) 12:46, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

Note 1 is about an unstressed checked vowel. In this case, it is a stressed vowel. That is what makes the difference. - UtherSRG (talk) 14:45, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

So you're just not going to answer my questions? And what does the note (which I wrote, by the way, to document what was already common practice) not being about stressed syllables have to do with this anyway? Sure, it doesn't directly pertain to the question at hand; that means it doesn't validate or reinforce your position either. Nardog (talk) 04:41, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Shouldn't we follow the sources? As both forms are found in reputable dictionaries, I suggest using both, with the more common one first.  —  Jts1882 | talk  05:50, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

What difference do you think is conveyed by kar-NIV-ər-ə and kar-NIH-vər-ə? Nardog (talk) 07:13, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Jts1882, the OED and MW are split on which to use. - UtherSRG (talk) 10:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

I'd agree with kar-NIV-ər-ə; there's no aspirated 'h' sound in the middle of the word - MPF (talk) 11:21, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Per WP:RESPELL: the 'h' indicates a short or checked vowel. - UtherSRG (talk) 11:24, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Except, I'd say it should be kar-NIV-or-ə; it's Carnivora, with an -or- sound, not "Carniver-a" ;-) MPF (talk) 11:27, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

And MW is alone in syllabifying that way, as seen above. Nardog (talk) 13:58, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Dictionary entries:

• OED: kar-NIV-uh-ruh
• MW: had something closer to kar-NIH-vər-ə but they no longer support respell it seems

- UtherSRG (talk) 11:38, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

"karnivuhruh" sounds just plain weird!! Like someone wheezing with seriously bad asthma . . . 😳😱 – but seriously, why do we give any pronunciation thing at all? Seems rather prescriptive, at odds with peoples' freedom to pronounce how they see fit - MPF (talk) 13:05, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

References

Second paragraph of lead

The second paragraph could use some work in terms of clarity, consistency, and overlinking.

• Clarity: The paragraph introduces a lot of terminology like true felids and pinniped which are obviously accurate and relevant but could be defined or replaced in the intro with more accessible language for general audience. I'm not fundamentally opposed to using this terminology but it caught my eye, especially in light of the other issues described below.
• Consistency: Usage varies between taxonomic and common family names (e.g., The feliforms include the Felidae, Viverridae, hyena, and mongoose families), uses both felid and Felidae, and use of families vs subfamilies and other clades to provide examples. I can see the reasoning here and I'm not arguing it is incorrect.
• Overlinking: Felidae and felid are both linked despite directing to the same page. Phrases like Americas likely do not require wikilinking here. Cat and dog are commonly understood and may not need wikilinks, although those articles are clearly relevant to the topic of this article.

I may make some edits but I don't have a strong sense of which direction to take so starting here for now.

Referring to the current version at the time of this writing. --MYCETEAE 🍄‍🟫—talk 22:12, 16 November 2024 (UTC)